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谈判桌上所做的是表演

 

汤文亮博士

纪惠集团行政总裁
2015年7月13日

  星期日晚,有老友打电话给我,问希腊与欧盟的谈判没有进展,担心希腊被勒令退出欧元区,影响世界经济,我同佢讲有乜好担心,那是欧盟的家事,美国佬都袖手旁观,佢巴不得欧盟分解,咁佢就唔使谂计对付欧盟,美国自己当然就唔得,南方联盟旗帜都要被除下。在欧盟方面,德国婆同其他领袖亦都知道,他们虽然高姿态,但希腊一定不能够撤出欧元区,齐普拉斯当然知道欧盟领袖心意,所以他非常风骚,如果唔知道内里的始末因由,一定以为齐普拉斯才是债主,既然早已有结果,我根本懒得去写评论文章,更加唔需要担心希腊被勒令撤出欧元区,我老友只不过是杞人忧天而已。

  无论政治,商业,在谈判桌上见到的只不过是双方表演,在桌下的谈判才是真实,愈多人参与谈判,成功机会愈低,现在欧盟各国都派代表出席,一人一句,令到齐普拉斯都不耐烦,问那班欧盟财长想怎样,其实,他早已和德国婆讲掂数,到最后一刻,齐普拉斯抛出一个令德国婆可以下台方案,反而轮到德国婆讲多谢,一定迫其他欧盟成员国接受,跟著大家可以齐齐影相,食饭饮酒,本来餐点,餐饮都是由法国佬负责,但时势有变,西班牙佬终日无所事事,餐点方面竟然超越法国佬,今次由西班牙佬负责。

  其实,任何谈判都是一个give and take 游戏,就算打败仗投降都可以有要求,如果衰到不能有要求就叫做无条件投降,日本仔就试过。当大家认为一定不会出现在下方的要求在上方的无条件投降,原来世事真的是无绝对,泛民要求中央政府撤回有关香港普选的人大决定,推翻8.31方案,否则唔倾,如果中央政府真的是这样做,即是无条件投降,习主席,李总理睬泛民都儍,一於少理,原地踏步就原地踏步,况且受害的是香港人。

 
 
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1. 自我陶醉 2015-07-13 11:06:59
我就冇博士咁乐观喇, 先看希腊本身, 现在负债超过GDP180%, 失业率28%, 青少年失业率64%, 基本上系不可持续水平, 唔削债还要继续紧缩, 要番身冇咩可能。 要紧缩又可以再缩几多? 大家心中有数。

讲到削债德国第一个会反对, 其他欧盟国都唔会支持, 有人话希腊咁细要救实救到, 但大家有冇谂过畀希腊极左翼政党今次过到呢关, 葡萄牙、西班牙、意大利嘅左翼势力又会点?  削佢债同搬石头揼自己只脚有咩分别?

所以我觉得希腊现在只有三条路:
1. 脱离欧元区兼赖债博吓有得削债
2. 齐普拉斯放弃左翼路线
3. 希腊改选, 找听话温和派上场, 畀欧盟落台阶顺势扫除极左力量

希腊选齐普拉斯上场主要系反紧缩, 佢仲要搞个公投反对紧缩, 除非佢肯认衰兼辞职, 否则要行第二条路机会都好细。最后结论系希腊一系脱欧, 一系仲有排玩。

2. 汤文亮 2015-07-13 15:29:13
各位,
希债危机已解决
3. 打工仔 Andy 2015-07-13 15:45:03
太好了! 
4. 自我陶醉 2015-07-13 16:20:42
博士好嘢!  不过唔知条款系点, 而且所有条款还要等希腊国会通过才可作实, 希望今次唔会再甩辘喇!
5. 新丁 2015-07-13 16:39:45
汤博士估希债危机又估得好准wow
6. 新丁 2015-07-13 16:39:57
汤博士估希债危机又估得好准wow
7. 自我陶醉 2015-07-14 07:14:53
Greece Should Just Quit
18 JUL 13, 2015 5:05 PM EDT
By The Editors ~ Bloomberg

Does Greece belong in the euro area? This fundamental question has divided Europe's governments for months, and still does. The deal just announced only pretends to resolve their disagreement. That's why it won't work.  

Enough is enough: Greece should leave the euro system.

The terms forced on Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras last weekend have little chance of being accepted, carried out and sustained by this Greek government or its successors. Greece's parliament may accept them this week because it thinks the alternative is worse -- and in the short term, that may be true. In the long term, a deal imposed under extreme duress, and bitterly resented by most Greeks, won't succeed.

Greece's Financial Odyssey

Not long ago, a better outcome was imaginable. It would have required compromise on both sides. Greece would have recognized its need to undertake far-reaching economic reforms and to rebuild trust with its creditors. Europe would have responded with fresh, conditional assistance -- sufficient to support the Greek economy through a painful transition.

Such a compact is no longer possible. Trust has collapsed to such a point that Greece is being told it must become an EU colony, not a sovereign state. It is being forced into a deal it will resent for years, and to which it will feel no sense of obligation. Under these circumstances, leaving is the best available choice.

The current deal had to split the difference between Europe's divided leaders. France and others want Greece to stay in the euro system; Germany and its supporters don't. The upshot is that Greece must agree to much stricter terms than were previously offered, pass laws to implement far-reaching policy changes within three days, and place a huge stock of assets marked for privatization under EU supervision; then, and only then, will Germany and other euro zone governments ask their legislators for permission to start discussing a new bailout program.

This approach makes it theoretically possible for Greece to remain in the euro system, but practically extremely difficult. The terms are so severe that they might well be beyond Tsipras's power to deliver. One suspects that for Germany and its supporters, this is the point.

Papering over the disagreement between those who want Greece to remain in the euro zone and those who don't -- hence failing to decide the very purpose of the strategy -- further prolongs the agony and adds to the costs. The risk that it will poison the whole European project, if it hasn't already, grows by the day.

Given Tsipras's history of provocation and evasion, and Greece's history of fiscal fraud and incompetence, his belated yes last week to the creditors' expired offer wasn't enough by itself. It wasn't unreasonable of the creditors to ask for trust-building measures -- such as passing a major piece of legislation (on value-added tax, say) at once as a token of good faith.

But demanding instant passage of an enormous raft of measures, many of them only loosely connected to fiscal stability, as the price for the possibility of talks on a new program, gives every appearance of being calculated to humiliate -- which is certainly how it will be seen in Greece.

The text of the agreement starts by affirming that, when it comes to policy commitments, "ownership by the Greek authorities is key." Indeed it is. Ultimately, that's why this deal cannot work.

Whatever happens in the next few weeks, Greece may still end up leaving the euro system. Exit now will be painful, to be sure. The risks to the rest of Europe aren't small. But Greece will at least be in command of its own future, with nobody else to blame for its setbacks. The sooner that happens, the better.

8. 自我陶醉 2015-07-14 07:36:33
希欧协议实双输希债炸弹未除
香港经济日报 社评

欧盟与希腊就债务问题达协议,在德国铁腕下,希腊终被迫签城下之盟,要加力紧缩、变卖资产,却换不来削债。惟欧盟企硬亦令欧元区裂痕进一步加深,演成希腊与欧盟双输结局。

希腊撒赖惹祸自招德国重惩
希债危机昨现突破, 欧盟将透过欧洲稳定机制(ESM)向希腊提供信贷度过难关,贷款金额达860亿欧元,远高於国基组织(IMF)估算的500亿欧元资金需求。惟对希腊而言,有关协议不但并非胜利,更近乎屈辱。

希腊总理齐普拉斯曾扬言,会要求欧盟等债权人削减希腊债务三成,并图藉公投迫欧盟就范,但公投反惹最大债主德国摆出不惜踢走希腊的强硬态度,齐普拉斯不但未能迫欧盟削债,反须大力加税、削福利,甚至要变卖国有资产,筹500亿欧元以抵债自救。希腊漫天索价的结果,是输得更惨。

希腊今次玩火烧身,眼前考验将是如此「丧权辱国」的救助方案,能否在周三死綫前获国会通过。惟齐普拉斯的反撙节期票「弹票」收场,却可能惹左翼政府内部更大反弹与逼宫,亦可能惹怒希腊民众上街反对方案,内外交煎,甚或造成提前大选,酿希腊政治剧震。

就算希腊能捱过政治难关,通过援助方案,经济难关仍未见出路。因援助方案仅是助希腊借新债冚旧债,希腊仍被迫加力撙节,恐重蹈过去五年财政愈削、经济愈缩的恶性循环,国内生产总值已萎缩近四分一的希腊,经济恐未见底,要解决重债势缘木求鱼。

希腊虽是大输家,却不代表欧盟就是赢家,实是希腊与欧盟的双输结局。德国欲借希腊杀鸡儆猴,警示其他欧猪国,惟客观上恐惹反效果。

其一,此将加剧希腊国民对欧元区的离心,若希债问题再现,自感受尽欧盟「欺凌」的希腊人很可能拉倒求解脱,即时引爆脱欧危机。

其二,德国霸气凌人的态度,恐更增其他欧洲国家的激进声音,如今年底将有选举的欧猪国西班牙与葡萄牙,以至明年或举行脱欧公投的英国,主张脱欧的疑欧派声势或大涨。

欧盟裂痕更深自埋脱欧后患

冲击更大的是,今次希债谈判,再度暴露欧盟团结只是光说不练,强国如德国等得享欧洲一体化最大利益,弱国经济水深火热却苦无出路,加深欧盟内部裂痕,长远损害国际市场对欧盟以至欧元的信心。

此正预视,除非欧盟能痛定思痛,在胁迫希腊狠削赤之余,亦力助希腊重振经济翻身,否则希债危机翻发仅时间问题,届时势点燃各方的新仇旧恨,脱欧震荡更难免。
9. 引刀一快 2015-07-14 13:43:42
有借无还兼要享受,睇见呢种人踩嘢,唔驶可怜佢。
10. 珍惜香港 2015-07-14 15:02:56
珍惜香港

博士话,希债危机已经解决,呢一点,我唔认同。

我反而倾向自醉兄嘅睇法,希腊经济,喺超级唔平衡。国民生活水平,同佢地嘅整体生产力,相距太远,呢个问题,一日唔解决,希债危机,一日都冇可能解决。

无可否认,今次谈判桌上,的确喺达成咗协议嘅。不过,我睇评论,从来唔会只睇结果;预测嘅理据,合唔合乎现实,先至喺最重要。好明显,德国婆真喺企硬,齐普拉斯莫讲话一啲都唔风骚,佢响短时间之内,已经投咗降,仲乜都应承哂添!

希腊债务,累积达三千几亿欧元。早前我话,借钱唔还,分分钟搞到要还资源。你狮子口玩削债三成咁串,呢铺真喺削条毛啦!仲要将五百亿欧元希腊国产供出嚟还债,唔知算唔算偷鸡唔到蚀渣米?无抵押债仔,真喺大哂咩?

或者大家可以睇下会议前,同会议后,当中发生过乜事;其实,齐普拉斯已经露底

当日公投,阿齐大力呼吁国民,一定要反对债权人方案,唔喺嘅话就辞职喎!唔好俾我睇穿,果个公投结果,根本就唔喺佢想要嘅。只要债权人方案胜出,佢就真喺可以好风骚咁,以民族英雄嘅姿态落台,反正结果喺点,班国民都唔使旨意有好日子过啦,到民怨再沸腾,咪卷土重来罗!政治呢味嘢,就喺咁。

依家好衰唔衰,班国民竟然咁听话。讲真,阿齐边有咁嘅 GUTS,俾希腊退出欧元区?边个做总理,都唔愿意充当呢只刽子手啦!民族英雄?千古罪人就有你份!

阿齐呢铺真喺输得好惨,仲露哂底,随时面对政变嘅危机。要赢,就必须发动清除异已嘅斗争,将希腊呢个民主发源地,推番去独裁,喺唔喺好讽刺?输咗呢?两面不是人,永不翻身罗!

唉!民主何价

呢次希债危机,会唔会真喺得到解决?我当然唔会预测埋啲咁嘢。近呢半年,都不时有人 SELL 欧债、欧洲基金之类,话好抵喎!我一向唔钟意借钱俾人烧,更加唔钟意借钱俾人浪费资源

都喺果句,成三千几亿欧元,总要搵人填嘅,问题喺,有冇你份
11. 自我陶醉 2015-07-14 16:57:28
引刀兄, 你搞错喇, 我唔系可怜佢, 只系惊佢累街坊啫!

其实卖资产佢哋之前都谂过, 齐普拉斯上一手计埋所有家档当时只卖到350亿欧罗, 依家经济仲差咗, 要筹500亿, 真系横又死, 掂又死, 只系唔知点死?  过到国会先算喇!
12. 引刀一快 2015-07-14 20:06:07
自我陶醉兄

睇到呢度,我觉得世事真系妙,之前大家仲估紧有冇黑天鹅,今次希腊中国两边都风起云涌,唔知会唔会搞D出人意表嘅嘢呢?

13. 自我陶醉 2015-07-15 08:29:26
引刀兄, 

今年中的三只黑天鹅包括: 希腊违约、中国引发全球衰退、美国进入加息周期。 

这三只天鹅中, 当然系你讲嘅中国问题最大杀伤力, 像希腊这样一个小国, 本身破产的实际金融风险其实不大, 现在只是以担心欧元区解体作藉口炒作, 睇佢畀德国玩到鷄毛鸭血, 我估都唔会有其他人再敢玩嘢喇。至於美股债这几年的泡沫, 就是等待一少点火来引爆, 那点火是什么真系冇人知喇!  
14. 引刀一快 2015-07-15 10:01:38
自我陶醉兄

呢铺大陆有变数,虽然主走向系非常唔好,但系借今次将银行个小河招安,肖小姐开番摊老公打残,直接喺“龙成邦”手上拉走两个最有份量嘅地盘,情况比之前稍稍乐观咗。